Our Stance on Vaccines

Because why not post on a hot topic and piss some people off, right?

I research each and every vaccine myself. Here's the background:

I was pregnant with Jena and was given the CDC info sheets for the vaccines they want her to get right away. One of them (I think Hepatitis B), had stats that didn't sit right with me for some reason. Took me a while to figure out. Then I realized. They presented some numbers as percentages, some as fractions, and some as raw numbers. Having spent years at my job making various numbers-based presentations to executives, I know this trick well: you present it in whichever format spins your story the best. Any time you see a report, news article, etc. with numbers presented in multiple fashions, it should be a red flag that they are trying to sell you something. And so I began digging. I just wanted to see for myself.

Think back to math class. Probably late elementary school timing. One of the basic rules of comparing numbers is that to do an accurate comparison you have to get them in the same format. This is when you learn to convert fractions to percentages and vice versa. It is literally elementary school level math. And both sides are using it to their advantage on a regular basis.

It was hard for me to find legitimate info at first. The problem being that the vast majority of sites out there are either very pro-get-every-vaccine-exactly-on-schedule or very-don't-trust-any-vaccine-and/or-the-schedule. Which means they're all spinning the numbers one way or another. So I went to the source.

I now pull all of my stats from the CDC, FDA, and WHO sites. I read manufacturers inserts. When I can I read the policies for those vaccines for other 1st world countries. If there is a difference in recommendation, I try to find out why.

I will tell you that some of this information is VERY hard to find. Which is VERY frustrating to me. I get even more flustered when I can find a stat on one vaccine then can't find it on another. It happens. I'm irritated that the wording is different from one to another. For example, sometimes "death" is lumped in with all serious complications. Other times it is its own entry. These inconsistencies and lack of transparency are perhaps the largest red flags to me.

The end result: we do get the majority of vaccines, and on schedule. We skip a few when the data to support it just isn't there.

I am not an "anti-vaxxer". I am not a "pro-vaxxer". I am a question everything kind of person. I am the kind of person who wants to see for herself. I encourage everyone, no matter what side of the issue you are on, is (if you haven't already) to do your own research. Don't be a sheeple (I love that term).

I'm not going to put our decision regarding specific vaccines on this post (although I think for Jena it's been mentioned before). For a long time I've wanted to publish the numbers and information as I pull them for each individual vaccine, so I'm going to make a concerted effort to do so in the future, lay the numbers out for you, and hopefully help my readers make a more informed decision regarding the care of their families, no matter what they decide.

Routine Immunizations

The other night I had the opportunity to participate in an online discussion regarding routine childhood immunizations. It was an interesting discussion, with a good mix of moms who follow the standard schedule, follow an alternate schedule, or skip altogether. And it was probably the first such discussion I'd had without drama.

No flames. No judging. Just people sharing their viewpoints & perspectives & information.

It was awesome. I actually usually avoid discussions on any sort of hot-button topic because, let's face it, it seems like it's nearly impossible to have those talks without someone getting defensive, or hurt, or preachy. Or all three. And the next thing you know, you're stuck in the middle of a snark fest. Ugh.

As far as my stance, I am neither pro-vaccine, nor anti-vaccine. I am pro-doing-what's-best-for-my-child.And I accept that what that means is different for everybody. And that's okay.As for what we chose to do with Jena, we looked at each immunization separately. After all, each one is vastly different. Protecting against different diseases, bearing different possible side effects, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on & on. Barring any religious or medical reason to avoid all vaccines, I personally do not believe there is a blanket answer to the whether-or-not-to-vaccinate question.

Anyway, some of the people participating asked some questions that created an opportunity for me to dredge the depths of my mind for what I learned while doing my own research. And then I was asked for more info. And more.

And... I don't remember that much. And although I did a TON of research, I never found the time to compile it all and write it up. And then I just let it fall by the wayside.

But that discussion has motivated me to continue with my research and get it out there for other parents.

The obvous question? Why do your own research when there is so much already out there?

Well, because I couldn't find any info that didn't seem to be biased one way or another. I didn't want bias, I didn't want someone else's opinions, or conclusions, or findings. I wanted raw data. Numbers. Put together in a meaningful way that permitted me to make an intelligent, educated decision without pushing someone else's agenda on me.

Some of my findings were interesting. Others were downright surprising.

And it is my intent to post that on this blog once complete.
And so, dear readers, I ask you: what do you want to know about routine childhood immunizations? what would you like to see included?

As always, thanks for checking in!

Parenting Don'ts... that I did

or maybe still do.

Because we're all just doing our best.

Because judging one another needs to stop.

Because if I looked hard enough, I could find something to judge you for.

Not that I've ever intentionally hid any of these, but I'm letting them go, being upfront and honest, and telling you that I'm doing the best I can, just like you.

Flame away if you must.

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- I got my hair dyed while I was pregnant.
I couldn't find any reliable research to say that it would do anything to harm the baby, so heck yeah, I covered my gray.

- I let Jena play outside. By herself.
If you count 'with four dogs' by herself. I check on her every few minutes.

- I let Jena play in the bath by herself.
Once I get done washing her, if she's not ready to get out within a few minutes, I leave the bathroom. I pick up random crap around the house, walking past the bathroom and poking my head in every couple of minutes.

- We totally follow the 5 second rule in our house.
And sometimes extend it to ten.

- I rarely washed my hands when Jena was a newborn.
Oh, after the potty & before eating sure. But I figured she should be exposed to "family" germs, so never really bothered in between those events.

- I feed Jena all kinds of sugar & preservatives & fast food. And very little organic.
She also eats lots of veggies, and fruit, and whole grains. Whatever.

- I have spanked Jena
And smacked her hand. It's rare, but it has happened.

- I don't follow the pediatrician's recommendation on shots.
Nor do we skip all vaccinations. Nor do we follow Dr. So-and-So's modified vaccination schedule. I researched every individual vaccine myself and we have followed a modified schedule of our own, making our own judgement on what is best for our daughter, instead of following blanket advice from either side of the table.

- I just found out that five years ago the FDA recommended no cold medicine for kids under the age of 6.
Meh.

- We didn't really childproof the house.
But I've already written about that.

- Jena's car seat got turned around before she turned one year old.
Not much before, but she had outgrown the height & weight requirement & had good control of her head. She's moved to each level of seat restraint sooner than the recommended age, but never before the required height & weight. And we follow requirements for both Kentucky & Ohio, since we travel frequently in both.

- similarly, I think putting a child's age on a safety requirement is stupid.
Other than for infants (because you have the whole head-control thing), it makes much more sense to use a combination of height & weight. Some children are big, some are small. Going by an age will make no actual impact on their safety. Going by height & weight will. Needless to say, I ignore the age thing.

- I could have breastfed longer than I did.
But I had extremely low supply (3-4 oz per day) and spending all that time pumping for one feeding a day seemed like a waste. Bring on the formula.

- I let Jena sleep on her belly.
Once she got up the strength, she kept flipping herself over anyway.

- I skipped tummy time
While she loved to sleep on her belly, she hated being awake on her belly. Would scream incessantly till you picked her up. Seriously. I have one such session on tape. It was torture for everyone involved. So after about the 3rd or 4th time, I stopped.

- Jena never slept in our bed as an infant.
She slept in a bassinet next to our bed for about 2 weeks. Then we gradually started moving her farther away. She was in her crib overnight by 6 weeks of age.

- We let Jena cry it out.
As an infant. And thru preschooler-hood. As in now. I self-imposed a 20 minute time limit when she was an infant, which we still hold to, but she rarely went that long. Like maybe twice in her life. She also slept thru the night (6+ hours) by six weeks of age.

- I changed the kitty litter while I was pregnant.
Jason wasn't doing it, and I wasn't getting rid of the cat, so...

- When she was little, I rarely slept when she slept
I felt like I got more out of showering during at least one of those times.

- We went on our first post-baby "date" when she was less than 2 weeks old
It was our first anniversary. We went to lunch & a matinee. My mother-in-law watched her. She was fine. So were we.

- We went on our first "no baby" vacation when she was less than a year old.
We won a dive cruise. In the Bahamas. She stayed with my parents. She was fine. So were we.

- I praise my daughter religiously
I tell her she's awesome, smart, funny, kind, amazing, and beautiful multiple times a day.

- I still let Jena drink from a sippy.
She's nearly four. She can drink from a regular cup just fine. But walking around the house, or on the go, a sippy is safer for my floors, my furniture, and my sanity.

- I still ask Jena if she wants a paci. If she asks for it, I give it.
She's never been addicted, and it's better for her teeth than sucking on her fingers (which she tries to do).

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So there you have it. My list of "don'ts" that I so did. Or still do.

What about you? What have you done "wrong" as a parent?

As always, thanks for checking in!

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this post inspired by this post

Vaccine Soapbox. But not really.

I posted in a Friday Fragments post that I was back on my vaccine soapbox after a recent incident. But really, that's not totally true.

I'm more on a rant about how our pediatrician's office is handling the situation.

So, for those of you who don't know, we chose to delay several of FireGirl's vaccines, and skip two.

Last Autumn, when she started at her old preschool, we got a religious exemption form to enroll her, signed by her pediatrician.

The week before she started her new preschool, I called her pediatrician's office to let them know I would need her immunization records as well has have a new exemption form signed. They told me I could pick it up on Friday. She was scheduled to start school on Monday.

When I go in to pick them up, they give me her immunization record, and the office manager asked me to step into a back office to talk about the exemption form.

I was told that as a practice they no longer sign exemption forms for patients, and at that time was not given any explanation other than "that is the stance our practice is taking".

She then explained that if I still needed one (duh), that I would need to contact the Health Department, who would show me a video explaining the vaccines.

This was a little confusing to me. I asked her why. She said so I would understand why vaccines are necessary.

So I said something along the lines of:

"So this practice's stance is that the only reason that a parent would make a serious medical decision for their child that is contrary to your position on the subject is that the parent must not be educated on the issue?"
She stuttered, and insisted that no, they were not saying that anyone was uneducated.

So I  asked what watching a video was supposed to do then.

She said something about giving parents more information.

So I reiterated that they were basically taking the stance that the only reason a parent would delay or skip any vaccine is that said parent must be uneducated on the matter, and that by watching a video, surely said parent will change their mind.

More stuttering.

Keep in mind that at no point was I ever asked why we had chosen to delay / skip these vaccines. At no point during our appointments had the pediatrican or nurse asked us.

She said maybe a doctor could explain it better, and would I like FireGirl's pediatrician to call me later.

Yes, in fact, I would.

He did.

He explained that their legal counsel had recommended that they no longer sign exemption forms, as to do so could make them liable in the case the child, or the child's immediate contacts, contracts the disease for which they were not vaccinated.

Okay. I get that.

So I asked if that then meant that they were assuming liability for any side effects that children suffered as a result of the immunizations, and assuming liability for any children that contracted the illness despite the vaccine.

Like, perhaps they would like to pay us back for the multiple visits FireGirl had in their office and the dermatologist when she developed Gianotti-Crosti Syndrome from a vaccine when she was a year old.

Well, no.

I told him that did not make sense, was not logical.

He then said that their counsel did advise them they could sign the exemption form in the rare instance that it was a true religious exemption, in which they confirm the parent's official religious affiliation and receive documentation from their house of worship stating that receiving said vaccine violates their religious beliefs.

I explained to him that even asking a patient or parent their specific religious affiliation was most likely illegal, and that Kentucky law was written to be specifically vague to allow for personal religious beliefs, not just organized religion.

He said he did not know that.

I then suggested that they might want to find new legal counsel, because it sounded to me like whomever it was was giving them advice that made it more likely that they would be the center of a lawsuit, not less likely.

He did not appreciate that.

And then I just had one more question.

If you signed one in September, your policy must have changed within the past nine months.

True.

So why weren't parents notified? Either by mail, by informing us when we came in, or by posting it somewhere in the office (there are numerous postings throughout the office both in the patient rooms & by the reception desk)? And why wasn't I informed when I called and specifically said I would be picking one up?

His response? They had discussed notifying parents, but they didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I told him it certainly was a big deal for any parent trying to register their child for school, to get that unexpected surprise at the last minute.

That also bothers me for a broader reason, of wondering what other policies have they / might they change, that they never communicate to parents until it's too late, because the doctors / office manager / legal counsel don't think it's a "big deal".

Again, I would like to note that nowhere in this conversation did he ever ask me why we had delayed / skipped certain immunizations for our daughter.

Not once has anyone at this practice asked us why. We have not, ever, even been asked our religious affiliation (since apparently it is perfectly okay for them to ask that). We have only been told, in very polite terms, that the only reason a parent would not follow the "normal" immunization schedule for their child must be a lack of education.

Honestly, if we didn't love our pediatrician and the care he has provided her since she was a day old (literally), I would probably now be looking for a new practice.

So anyway... we turned in her immunization record on FireGirl's first day of school, and scheduled an appointment for the Health Department. For three weeks later. The soonest they could see a non-urgent patient.

But we're to call the day before to make sure the staff we're scheduled with is actually gonna be there.

Becaaaauuuse... that's... an... efficient... way... to run... an office.... ?
I was kinda speechless when she told me that, and had to have her repeat the instructions, certain I'd misunderstood. Nope. We have an appointment. But we are to call the day before to "make sure" the people we're scheduled with will be there. If they're not gonna be there, or if we get there the day of and they're not there, we'll have to reschedule, probably another three weeks out.

What the...?{{steps on political soapbox for a minute}} Good thing Obamacare got passed. Because clearly having the government run our medical offices is a great idea (please note sarcasm).
Fortunately FireGirl's school hasn't said a word about her missing immunizations. Yet.

{{slowly steps off of soapbox}}

So, after a day of agonizing over this decision, being sick to my stomach, googling vaccines, immunizations, exemptions, etc., searching the state of Kentucky's website...

It ends up we don't have to get those vaccines in order to send Jena to school.

Her preschool called me back today. She said that we do, in fact, qualify for religious exemption.

me: we do?
her: yes
me: but I thought religious exemptions were an "all or nothing" thing (which is how I read all of the information I could find online)
her: no, not exactly. If you refuse or delay certain vaccines you have to specifically write the name of that vaccine on the exemption form
me: really? awesome! but we're not not getting them because of religious reasons
her: your refusing them because as a parent you believe getting them is not in your child's best interest, right?
me: yes...
her: those "beliefs" qualify as "religious", in regards to the exemption
me: really?
her: yes. Trust me, we've been thru this many times before.
me: awesome! Thank you!
her: since your daughter has some of the vaccines, just make sure you turn in her completed Immunization Certificate, as well as your signed Religious Exemption form, and be sure to specifically name any vaccines you have refused or delayed
me: awesome! and I can just bring that on her next day of class?
her: yep
me: awesome. Thanks!

And the weight fell off of my shoulders.

Although I am no longer on my soapbox, I do have a request to the State of Kentucky (and many other states as well, I am sure):
Could you please make this information easier to find? Heck, all of your information... could you make it easier to find?

I remember when I moved to Kentucky, trying to figure out how to register for this & that, get a new license, transfer my car registration, etc, etc, etc. I spent tons of time on the internet, even called & asked just to be sure, and still ended up not having all of the info I needed. It was a mess. I was furious.
Information I needed I found on the state and/or county websites, only to find out it was either outdated, or missing some pretty important pieces. It made the whole process of moving here needlessly stressful and frustrating.

Yesterday I spent hours (literally) on the internet, looking up regulations, exemptions, visiting numerous message boards, touring the state site, as well as even anti-vaccine sites, looking for information. And no where did I find this info. Why is that?

Oh well. It's a shame that the info is so hard to find. And it's a shame that some parents will get the vaccines that they don't want for their children, so they can send them to school, because they don't know about this inclusion in the exemption. Heck, after much gut-wrenching, I had Jena's appointment already made. So glad I cancel it and forget this whole thing. Well, at least until next year.

{{slowly climbs on soapbox}}

I don't think any parent should have to choose between putting their child thru what they consider to be an unacceptable medical risk, or enrolling them in school.

We, as the parents of Jena, chose for her to not have two vaccines, and to delay others. This is based on our own research of each individual vaccine.

Why look at each one individually? Because they're all different, that's why. They each have different benefits, including rates of protection, and different risks, including side effects and rates of side effects. So it doesn't make sense to look at all of them together, as if you can make one generalized decision.

Think about it.

If my doctor wants to prescribe Augmentin to me, as an antibiotic, would I object? No. It's reasonably effective, and I have no known reactions to it.
What if my doctor wanted to prescribe Illosone, as an antibiotic, to me? It's also an antibiotic, right? Well, yes, it is. But as an infant it almost killed me. So guess what, I'm gonna object, and refuse.

Kind of a simplistic example, but I think you get my point. Just because all vaccines are lumped together in a group called "immunizations" doesn't mean they're all equally effective, or equally safe. Therefore, it is wise that we look at them individually.

So... back to my point...

The only "legal" objections to not vaccinating your children for school, at least in my state, are religious (but this is a blanket exemption for all vaccines, and doesn't pertain to us), or medical (which does individualize, but essentially requires your child to have a pre-existing condition).

Which means that no matter how much I believe a particular vaccine is not right for my child, I have to choose between the medical risks, or enrolling them in school.

And I don't think a parent should have to make that decision. More importantly, I don't think our government should force those decisions on parents. Or anyone.

Now, before someone says "well, if you don't vaccinate then other parents will have to choose between the risks of being around your unvaccinated child or sending their kid to school" - I want to point out that if their child is vaccinated... if vaccines are so awesomely awesome that you felt it was worth the risk to give your child that vaccine... then why are you worried? Your vaccinated child should be perfectly safe, right? Isn't that why you got the vaccine? The only children in real "danger" would be those who were unvaccinated. And if that's not the case, if you're not so convinced that a vaccine will protect your child from the disease, then I must ask: why were you willing to put your child at risk for the side effects if you didn't believe it would work?Ugh.

I just finished re-reading the package insert for one of the vaccines. I'm literally sick to my stomach now.

Listen, I am not anti-vaccine. I understand that vaccines serve a purpose and there are benefits to getting vaccines. I'm not anti-medication or anti-doctor.

What I am is anti-government-telling-me-what-is-best-for-my-child.
I am anti-no-one-can-tell-me-the-long-term-ramifications-of-this-vaccine-because-hasn't-been-out-that-long (and I'm planning on Jena living past her teenage years, so...).
I am anti-someone-else-telling-me-what-to-do-without-the-willingness-or-capability-to-provide-(what I consider) reasonable-proof-to-back-it-up.

And I am sick to my stomach. We believe it is best for Jena to attend school, including the private (but still-required-to-meet-gov't-regulations-about-vaccines) preschool she just started. We also believe it is best for her to not get these two vaccines. We are intelligent, well-educated parents who have done our research and have reached these conclusions based on what is best for our daughter.

I am still trying to figure out how the government even has the right to make such stipulations to begin with. In fact, I'm pretty sure they don't. I just don't know what to do about it.

Blech.

Friday Fragments

I'm tired. This week, while exciting, has been exhausting. And I can't imagine how tired FireMan must be.

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I miss running water. Peeing in a bucket and going to the gym to take a shower is getting old. Here's hoping we get the water line connected soon.

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Family is awesome. Especially my brother, who is letting us stay at his house (when we stay), even though he & I have never really been close at all. But that's what family does, right? You love each other, and are there for each other when you need it.

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Speaking of... looking forward to a hot shower & a working toilet tonight.

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Realized I never submitted FireGirl's immunization records to the preschool. Picked them up from the pediatrician today. Hoping the school doesn't flip out because she's never had her HepB or or Chicken Pox vaccine. Would still rather not do either (but not as passionate about it as when she was itty bitty)

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Continue to hear not-very-encouraging stories from parents whose children are in the public school system in our area. I've always been a supporter of public education, but more-and-more am beginning to feel concern over whether or not that will be best for FireGirl when the time comes.

Gianotti-Crosti Syndrome

So, the dermatologist thinks this is what FireGirl has. He said he thinks they symptoms are peaking right now, and we should start to see improvement in the next week or so. If no noticeable improvement in three weeks, then we go back for a skin biopsy.

He also explained that it is related to having a "bad viral infection". His words. When we told him that she hasn't been sick in months, he seemed stumped. So I asked him about a possible link between GC and vaccines, and explained the timing issue. He said there was no known "definitive" link between the two, but he did make a note of it in her chart.

Overall, I'm very happy with the appointment. He listened to us, she got a good prognosis, all should be well soon.

{sigh} of relief.

Baby and Bumps and Vaccines, Oh My!

It's been a long day. Already.

FireGirl has had some strange bumps on her body for a while now. Didn't pay much attention at first. She had two tiny bumps. They didn't itch, didn't seem to hurt, didn't seem to bother her at all. Then she had a few more, and a few more. The past week or so it seems like they've exploded all over her. She's covered in these bumps. But she had no other symptoms and they didn't seem to bother her so I didn't really worry.

Well, this morning, she had a few on her face, so I called the pediatrician and got in today. They were stumped. Called in another doctor. Got out the dermatology book. No idea. Great.
They told us to take her to the dermatologist (managed to get her in in 2 weeks), but not to worry about it in the meantime, that they don't think it's serious.

I get back to work. Frustrated that they don't know what it is, but relieved that they don't think it's serious. Then my cell phone rings.

I don't get to it in time and it goes to voicemail. It's the pediatrician. They were discussing FireGirl's case after we left, and they still want her to see the dermatologist, but now they are thinking that it is Gianotti-Crosti syndrome, which children sometimes get following a serious viral infection.

Well, knowing that she hadn't (to our knowledge) had any viral infections, certainly none that would be deemed "serious", I googled it.

Yeah. Can also be caused by certain vaccinations.

I am so upset. I checked my calendar to see when her last vaccine was, and the timing lines up that that might be what caused it. I'm so upset.

My mind is spinning. We've delayed a few vaccines. Asked to have others split up. I've never been a "no vaccine" momma. But now.... I just don't know.

All the stuff you hear on TV, and now this.

I haven't done a lot of research on the syndrome yet, just two sites to be honest, but considering she hasn't had any other viral infections that we're aware of, and the timing from her last vaccines, it does seem to fit that one of her vaccines caused it.

If that is what it is. We'll still go see the derm to be sure. But that's not for another two weeks.

I'm just so upset. I'm angry. I'm worried. I'm frustrated. I feel guilty. I'm angry. Did I mention that I'm upset?

If it is GC syndrome, and it is probably from the vaccine, where do we go from here? Do we become a "no vaccine" family? Do we just stagger everything out? If we skip vaccines to avoid the syndrome, what about when it's time to go to school? Does the state consider that an acceptable reason to not have the vaccines? There's so much to consider.

My head is spinning. I have a headache from crying. My stomach is upset. And I don't really see myself being able to focus on work this afternoon.

I really just want for FireMan to come home from work, for me to go get FireGirl, and then for the three of us to curl up together all afternoon.

Unfortunately that's not gonna happen. Blah.